Step 4: Distinctions Between Selfish and Self-Seeking in AA
The confusion over the words selfish and self-seeking in Step 4 is not new. It bothers me that Bill W used two words that appear similar. He says,
Referring to our list again, putting out of our minds the wrongs others had done, we resolutely looked for our own mistakes. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and frightened? ~ Alcoholics Anonymous, 2012, p 67
The following is how the Big Book Dictionary and Concordance defines the similar terms:
- Selfish – concerned primarily or only with oneself
- Self-seeking – seeking or pursuing only for oneself/ the act or practice of selfishly advancing one’s own desires and goals.
- Self-seeker – a self-seeking person/ seeking only to further one’s own interests
- Self-centered – concerned solely with one’s own desires, needs, or interests
Does it matter? If not, then you probably already grabbed the mouse and clicked off. A show of hands. How many are still with me, here?
It matters to me because words matter to me. My understanding of the basic text of AA matters to me. What follows is not my final word on this, I’m sure. I can only share what I own. This much I own. This goes along with my previous post on the character defect of Selfish, which will help to isolate selfish behavior.
Selfish:
- grab what makes me feel happy
- greedy, possessive, stingy
Dr Bob says,
Unfortunately for me I was the only child, which perhaps engendered the selfishness which played such an important part in bringing on my alcoholism. ~ Alcoholics Anonymous, 2012, p 172
So, for now, I’m content to define selfish as behavior that makes me act like an only child. Mine! is the mindset.
Self-Seeking:
- shrinking world of the mirror
- denial of reality
- disinterest in relationships in favor of selfish interests or goals
In the post Dying for Recognition I called self-seeking a shrinking world. The more we alcoholics indulge in that narrowing behavior, the smaller our focus gets. Pretty soon we’re hardly aware of anyone else or anything else…just our ourselves. Just our selfish aims. Self-seeking behavior can have elements of narcissism when combined with grandiosity, need for constant admiration and lack of empathy or consideration of others.
I know I’ve met a self-seeking individual when everything I say is boomeranged into a topic about them. Conversation and any form of personal relationship or intimacy is of no value to them unless it’s self-feeding.
What I’ve been looking for is a mental picture that helps me identify the difference in behavior. Only Child (selfish) versus the Narcissist (self-seeking). That might just work for me.
~ PS: Does it work for you?
Oliver– I appreciate your sharing here.
We have some powerful prayer warriors. (Everyone, please say one for our new friend.)
I wanted to tell you that we keep your chair and you can grab it anytime you wish. Also please feel free to check out the InTheRooms link on every post. That’s a wonderful 24/7 resource and fellowship sight. If I weren’t so limited on internet, I’d be there all the time!
Lovely blog Heidi, feeling very frightened this morning and fancied something online as opposed to reading. Great feed back from other members. Off for a pray and a meeting later. Thanks
Nicholas– I think that’s a good list. Thank you for the illustrations. In my own life I have seen that examples include taking control, manipulation, coercion, haggling, debating, argument and tirades. Do we see a pattern? ha. It’s not limited to this ugly list, however, I often find that trying to control people, situations or authorities in institutions is a big part of my self-seeking behavior. I often go that extra mile to get what I want or to be convincing because I’m afraid and insecure and I just want to feel like “I know!”. Of course, an integral part of that is recognition for “knowing” and the kudos that go along with that. It’s a struggle to balance out the immature and wrongful motives with the good part of being a natural teacher. All goes back to motivation. When I’m seeing the wrong motivation, I tend to stop blogging for a bit and study people wiser than I’ll ever get…or I just get it worked out with God and stumble along.
Thanks for claiming the chair. We’ll be looking forward to your contributions!
Self-seeking is artificially creating a sense of ease and comfort by acting to filla void.It can include gossip, pornography, food, lust, sympathy, sex, gambling, shopping, getting attention (good or bad), fishing forcompliments, anger, resentments, etc. Indulgence for the sake of emotional satisfaction or escape.
Referring to our list again, putting out of our minds the wrongs others had done, we resolutely looked for our own mistakes. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and frightened?
When I look at this part of the book I take notice to the fact that Bill says self-seeking and frightened, rather than self-seeking or frightened. Which leads me to believe that self-seeking and fear go hand and hand. For me self-seeking fear is when I do things that make me feel better about myself because of my abnormal fears. For example in the past I would harm sexually primarily because it temporarily made me feel better about who I was (I was validating myself through this behavior.) My self-esteem was horribly low and whatever temporary relief this behavior gave me did nothing to fill the bottomless pit inside me. Even worse when I was denied my self-seeking by someone it further made me feel worse about myself. A true double-edged sword. Today I am learning to let my infinite God validate me rather than finite people, places, and things that will never sustain my happiness.
I am 28 and I am new in recovery. I have only been sober for 8 months and I know I have a long road ahead of me, any thoughts on this matter would be appreciated.
Ah yes…
This makes me think of something I once said…
Sherrie– They are there just for ‘me’! I savor meetings more than ever, as well. I am such a fan of Step work. I love that no matter what I think I know, I know very little. Less all the time, because I can sense how much is left to learn. It’s an educators’ paradise and a student’s playground for sure. How could I not be thrilled with the recovery work? Thank you Sherrie.
KT–Love your description about questions and the narcissist. You nailed it! Don’t you just have a hard time keeping your jaw closed? I know mine drops. It can be hard to breathe in the same room–they take up all the space and all the oxygen. Thanks so much for commenting. Mirror, yes. I’ve buffed mine quite a bit lately. Got to see clearly whatever He wants to show me.
I was asked at the seder table the other night…..So, are you still going to those AA meetings? I smiled at my old friend, as he wonders why I would still bother going to those meetings as I approach 25 years of sobriety. There is no way for him to know how much I get from meetings and step work, in a way more than I got when I was so desperate to go in the beginning. Now I go as someone would go and tuck into a favorite meal. It feeds me yes, but it also feels like love, like those meeting are there just for me……..and they are, aren’t they??? lol
Hope you are having a wonderful day!
My hand is up–still with you!
Love words. In the beginning, that’s all there was, I’ve been told.
And now they have discovered (but are scared to admit) that the DNA code is a language with grammar and syntax.
Let there be . . . And it was so.
Thanks for every word, here. You have made me think.
I like “when everything I say is boomeranged”. I know someone like that. Not a substance addict, but a people addict, a controller, hard to love and so hard to ask a question of this one, because the answer given is always to what this person was HOPING I had asked. Amazing. And if this person asks me my opinion, what is really required is that I state and opinion identical to that person’s.
When they are steeped in their own self, it can be hard to breathe in the same room, sometimes.
And now that I can see that so clearly about others, I think I need to look in my own mirror.
Cyndi– Thank you for saying so. I am open to other ideas here. Glad to have your comments. Let me know how it goes sometime.
Louise– Thanks for stopping by. Keep up the good work.
Debby–I don’t know if the word picture will help anyone. Perhaps it’s just the joy of playing with the truth that keeps me going with this distinction. I have a couple of dear friends that are getting busy on Step 4 and our conversations spur me on–trying to make it a little easier…
Thank you for your comments.
Sherrie– I love the ‘heard the music’ bit. It’s true. You paint a beautiful picture of recovery with the dance and spin. How true. What we learn in the rooms and from others in recovery does reflect truth for us! Only lately have I been glimpsing the nuances of self-seeking. It’s exciting to find I can keep growing as long as I’m willing. The peace and joy of recovery just keeps feeding me and gives me the energy to keep dancing. I enjoy your comments. Thank you for stopping by!
Very good taking to the group. Thanks again!
great distinction, Heidi. well done.
Yes, you are a great deep thinker as Sherrie said. Words matter to me too and I appreciate your insight on those two similar terms. I’m still thinking about them and hope to remember the distinction you so clearly made. I do agree.
Ah, the charm of a word jockey…..Bill writes in levels and layers, trap doors lurking and discovery whispering from the wings. He beguiles, we of his ilk and annoys the rest. I have so often heard members with big red pens and plans for rewrites, but I know that just means they haven’t yet heard the music. For me selfish is the first look into the mirror, then as I dance and spin, turning to face the mirrored wall of our classroom I see the bigger picture the foreground and the background, this is when I see self-seeking.
Love your work Heidi, you are a great deep thinker!